RAUK - Archived Forum - More of my missing Adders

Went for a fourth visit to the site of my "missing" adders - which seem to have simply moved to more suitable habitat.

 Large female at 17:00, with bulge about a 3rd of the way down, so she must have fed not long before. Very darkly marked. This is the third individual I've now seen within a few square feet over the last month- strange as the whole hillside is made up of laying bracken, but this seems to be the favoured spot, the main features are two open basking areas, and a hollow in the bracken. Their habit seems to be to tolerate me for a few minutes and continue to bask in the open, then move into this hollow, where fortunately I can still sit and observe them.

Also female Grass Snake at 13:00, I didn't get a close examination of her, but I am pretty sure it is an individual I saw a couple of times last year on the exact same spot basking by the pond in the lower valley.. I would like to get a measurement one of these days as I know she's well over 3ft and larger than most of the grass snakes I've seen in the area.

Lots of Palmate newts popping up for air in pond around lunch time.

We also took a "wrong" turn and found a new to me site of mature heather - thats next week sorted then

Sounds like a good day Gemma !. I had no such luck yesterday . I went searching early evening ,(About 6ish) and saw nothing at one of my prime spots.  I did recieve a text just a little while ago this morning from my Brother, " female adder basking near the path at Wisley".

I'd like to see a picture of that large grass snake you saw , it's been quite a while since i've seen a biggy.

Take care,

Alan

The site isn't that far from from Wisley Alan, just a bit further down the A3. I would like to see a picture of the grassy too.. unfortunately I don't have the same skills as you when it comes to  photography!

Now the weather man said sunny today.. hmmmm pored down in Surrey all afternoon, no snakes, but did see a gorgeous brown owl, I guess it was about 12" tall, saw it in flight as I disturbed it whilst looking for cover from the rain, uniform brown, slightly lighter chest, would that be a Tawny owl in this area????

Gemma , thanks so much for the kind words, it means alot to me

Now Birds of prey ..... I luuuuurve birds of prey ,and i'd say it probably was a tawny owl , although it may have been a little owl.

Did the owl resettle anywhere? Little owls quite often fly in daylight , whereas tawny are more reluctant to do so prefering to sit in a tree with their faces screwed up. Littleowls will fly from perch to perch , usually a telegraph pole or fence posts.

Lucky you , I haven't seen an owl for quite a while now. But out in Turkey my brother and I were walking through a pine forrest on the mountainside . We could hear eagles crying above the trees, and as we walked out onto the path one flew very low over our heads with a still clucking chicken hanging in it's claws! Another eagle was following close behind . Great stuff.

Alan

Hi Alan,

It literally flew from one tree to the adjacent one under cover of the canopy, barely a wing beat, picked a good tree too, kept the rain off for ages  Was a little larger in flight than a Barn Owl - certainly made my day worthwhile.

Saw  a couple of Barn Owls around Havering way whilst out on my GCN survey nights last month also.

Hi Gemma,

You know.. I've never seen a barn owl in the wild. Definitely sounds like your owl was a tawny then.

Alan

Hi gemma, meant to ask you sooner.

I am interested in population shift no matter how slight. The adders that you are looking at on Wisley, where are they now in relation to the hibernation den? and what is the present make up of sexes etc.? If your sites are like some of mine then the bracken should be getting high and thick about now; I have found that in past years many adders have remained in this 'jungle' and always the gravid females.

Population shift is usually associated with habitat change or interference - eg. fire or innappropriate management. Due to changes in phenology management, i.e. removal of cover in March may now be a no no, but as it stands March 31 is deadline but I do know some go beyond that. At the moment the powers that be are not taking this on board - keep nagging, I do.

Tony

I'll do my best to sum up my observations down the years. The site is on Hindhead, I think a large enough heath not to give the precise location away.

Around 1983 my brother-in-law, then one of the woodmen on the common created a largish pond in a boggy area with low species count. Interested in native herps he cleared the surrounds of birch and placed piles of sticks and bracken specifically for snakes.

Within a couple of years 7 of the commonest species of reptiles and amphibians were to be found close to the pond and in an adjacent meadow, including a large number of Grass Snakes and Adders, I do not recall a bias in the sex ratios for the adders at that time. Observations were on holidays and day trips so amounted to little more than sightings. I recall often seeing both Natrix and Berus basking together, neo adders, often in company with larger snakes, and generally the site being a place where one could not fail to see snakes.

Down the years I continued to visit, slowly I realized that I no longer saw the adders and common lizards, though slow-worms and grass snakes were still abundant.

It is only this year IÆve had the time to find what happened to the adders, discovering the SE facing slope and realizing it could be the place they had moved to.

IÆve not yet located the hibernation bank, though likely places have been noted, a bank runs all the way down the side of the valley and around the back of the pond.

This years sightings have amounted to Grass Snakes still around the pond, and on the slope, 3 adders, 2 female 1 male, all within a just a few square feet of each other on the bracken slope, though IÆve carefully searched IÆve yet to find any others. (I would note though I've not yet had an ideal day, it's either been too wet or too hot so far and iv'e not been down on a day with showers and sun breaking, but this week looks hopeful)

The site is as you describe now with the green bracken having started to rise over the last week or so. ItÆs still easy to get around though as a group of Deer frequent the slope and there are obvious runs that can be followed whilst observing for snakes, so IÆll continue observation for the rest of this season and hopefully be able to get an early start next year to get a clearer picture of the population.

The area adjacent to the pond has changed, birch has encroached, the bracken piles are gone that provided open basking sites (though even 20 years on you can see where they were placed), and later in the year it becomes a forest of bracken. The shading is very noticeable, as 20 years ago it was a string of sun-traps all around the pond, now only 1 or 2 patches of ground catch the sun and this is where I still observe the Grass Snakes.

I think a winter task under your supervision would be the way to go - I am sure Richard will answer and we surely can rustle up some volunteers including someone trained with a chainsaw - I'll be there if we can organise it.

Tony

Gemma , Tony ,

I know that my whole family would be there .We all thoroughly enjoyed our pond mission round the local school.

Alan

Well having moaned about the weather only yesterday and blaming it for low counts, today was what I think of as a perfect snake spotting day, mist cleared at around 8:30 and sun shone till about 9:30, sightings 5 Grass snakes and 1 common lizard within a few feet of each other.

Became overcast till about 1:15, sightings 2 more natrix and 3 berus, including my original male and a new female. Oh and this one which I couldn't sex but if anyone else can please let me know (I thought male from the size)

was tucked in beside a bracken stem in a hollow log in the position of top picture when I spotted it about 6 inches from my foot.

one of the grass snakes from this group of sightings, picture doesn't do him justice, very lime green ventral surface and vivid collar markings, about 2ft away from the adder above.

Overcast again till about 2:45 to 3:30, 1 more natrix, 2 female berus and first sighting of a neo adder at this site. Then the monsoon set in, so that was my day finished. General observations: most sightings are still occurring in a very small area of the hillside, natrix a lot smaller on hillside than by the pond.

Hi Gemma, nice pics.

I'd say this is a male berus . Great day you had there! I think i'll take my camera out tomorrow , weather permiting.

Alan

Thanks Alan, need to get a telephoto lens for the digital camera though (had to practically put the camera on his nose to get an in focus shot)

Was a fantastic day, not had one like it for years and glad to have the time to be back out with them.. need to get my eye in though and stop being so clumsy, most of them are still seeing me way before I see them

I saw a massive bird of prey today on a thermal over the valley, are there any buzzards left in Surrey???

Excellent! I've seen buzzards in Surrey a few times , and from what I hear they are heading back our way and numbers are on the increase .

Also heard that peregrines are slowly working their way back . I heard of a pair in Basingstoke .

Back to snakes , I always find that my mooching abilities improve as the season progresses LOL! Early Spring I tend to be out of practice and clump around a bit heavy footed.

Cheers ,

Alan

Great to hear it Alan, I thought I was going a bit loopy as I was fairly sure it was a buzzard, first I've ever seen in the UK outside of the Lake District.

My stealth mode does seem to be betraying me at the moment, I wonder what other peoples methods are, I tend to stomp around quite a bit only getting sightings when they move, to get a feel for the site. Then creep up on them a few hours later knowing they won't be too far away, I guess only effective at a site you intend to visit regularly!

I was flitting between Surrey and Devon all last week when me and the girlfriend were camping near the county borders on Exmoor. Saw a fair number of Buzzards in both counties. Aslo saw 5! Peregrines, all close to or on the coast, 4 males and 1 female. 2 were on Surrey side. Even watched a fab territorial dispute between two birds near our campsite. Other than those we didn't see any other birds of prey though (though at one point we expected a sparrowhawk was hunting nearby due to the behaviour of the woodland birds whilst walking a path among some ancient oaks) and Tawny owls did there best to keep us awake at night. As for the owls, I've posted a picture of an adult Barn Owl and a Juvenile Tawny (sorry, don't have pics of adult, you get the idea what it'll be like though)....

Barn Owl (Tyto alba)

®Lee Fairclough 2003

Tawny Owl (Strix aluco) Juvenile

®Lee Fairclough 2003

Definately some of my favourite birds (well, you can argue very strongly that birds reptiles!)

Cheers, Lee.

Aargh! Geography gone wrong again!!! (and it's half midnight as usual too...) In the bit above instead of Surrey read Somerset! Was in Surrey as well immedately prior (that's where the owls were taken). And did see Buzzards there too (but alas, not Peregrines).

Hope that clears up any confusion, Cheers, Lee.